-K in the Bay

Have you ever been to a night movie? All one has to do is look at the check out the clientele at the movie theater near PB city hall or the Oaks in Melbourne to see the masses of teenie boppers. Mix a movie theater in with other shopping options like Hammock Landing will offer and it is a winning combination.

For the record, I am 26 years old and have zero debt other than my mortgage (since you asked).

I am from Gwinnett County, I grew up my whole life in Snellville but moved here to go to Florida Tech 11 years ago and have stayed b/c I love the area. How about yourself?
The under 40 crowd might be in debt up to their ears, but they don’t necessarily see it that way. If you take a look at the Service industry for example, they might make $100 dollars on their shift, be done at 11pm, and then they’re out looking for a bar to go party and they blowin’ $20-40 every night. They have far less in responsibilities (this is as a whole, not everyone) such as not necessarily a car payment, and therefore insurance and gas, they rent more commonly and often with several roommates, so they may only need to make $500 or so a month to be just fine. It may not be comfortable living or planning for the future, but it happens all the time. I only bring this up b/c I was the bartender for this crowd for 8 years, and it blew my mind to watch. Ignorance is bliss.
Even non-hospitality folks in their twenties usually have more cash on hand b/c they haven’t singed on for a mortgage yet and/or they just don’t care about racking up some more dept with the credit cards b/c they want the life now that their parents have worked 30 years for, I have seen that quite a bit. It isn’t that big a deal, and it wasn’t pointed towards saying that this crowd has more accumulated wealth, but they do spend cash in a very care-free manner, as a whole, not everyone.
In other news, not going to sign on with the shopping center, some of the terms were too strict for us, but that doesn’t mean I wish them badly or that I don’t think it will work out to benefit a lot of people. I wish them well, they were a nice group, but in the end we wanted to have more say in how are business was run then would be allowed at a major shopping center such as this. Still looking, and when I come up with something I will let you guys know where it’s going to be at and we can sit down and discuss the perverbial sh*t. That’s all I have for now, but I’m always up for more discussion or questions, I’m sure there are plenty of misspellings but you’ll have to forgive me, I gotta run.

-K in the Bay

First, K in the Bay, what county near Atlanta are you from? I too am from the Atlanta area (born and raised). I have yet to hear of or meet anyone else from Atlanta here in the Melbourne area until now. Just curious…Fayette County? Gwinnett?

Secondly, I can’t find it now b/c it’s too late and I should be in bed but someone above said the theater was a good idea b/c it draws young people who have more disposable income. WHAT?!?!? I don’t know how old the person is that said that but you must be really far removed from reality. I don’t mean to be rude but I don’t know anyone under the age of 40 that is not either in debt up to their eyeballs or just does without (I fall in the latter category). On the other hand, I know lots of older folks with social security, pensions, etc. on a “fixed” income who have plenty of money, no debt, travel the world, etc.

Finally, the road is “Culver” not “Culvert”!

I am mixed on it, as most of the things involved with this decision. I think it is good to have some sort of control over what goes up in your city, it avoids the calamity of the infamous eye sores that end up in other cities. It is quite a bit restrictive b/c if we do build from the ground up it will prevent us from going completely with our theme and concept. I would however, as I mentioned before, prefer to build in Palm Bay. In all honesty, the really is little price difference once you are the builder and you are putting it up from the ground up. Most of the builders in this area are used to it so the expense is negated by they’re particular expertise, versus where I grew up in Atlanta everything was Red Brick, b/c it was readily available and therefore cheap, and thus everyone in the area, for the most part, knew how to work with it whether or not it was required for that area.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Palm Bay has plenty of screwed up ideas and regulations and all kind of problems, but it is the City I have chosen to put my roots down in and rather than complain about it, I am dealing with it. I believe that there are two different ways to cope with something, deal with it, or get off your ass and change it. I do not have the political clout to change the way things are done, so therefore I am not ready to make that move. Besides, if you are about to try to get something done, you don’t go pissing off the people who are supposed to be helping you.
Personally, I think the biggest problem in this area is all of the Cities attitude towards new business(And this is not confined to Palm Bay). I think the Cities in this area rip off new business owners with all of their Impact Fees. Did you know that the Long Doggers on Minton Road paid somewhere between $50-75k in impact fees? That is ridiculous, no matter if you have the money or not. In the outparcel in the Hammock Landing we are looking at b/t $75-125k when it is all said in done, some of which is pay back to the shopping center for their up front costs, the rest is in addition to what has been done. I believe it is the purpose of the City to encourage small business, not exploit it. These are the issues that I have had to come to grips with, and mind you this is only for a new business. If we were to purchase an existing business, we would not pay a single impact fee cent. There are all kinds of different types of fees, they range from environmental to traffic flow impact to drainage, you name it, we pay it. I understand the basic principals, and i agree to an extent that if you put something big in a new location there will be consequences, but some of this stuff is out of control.
I seem to have gotten a bit off topic, so back to the original question before calling it a night. There are all types of cheap substitutes out there for buildings if you didn’t have this particular requirement to worry about. I have a friend who is an electrician, who once helped build steel shell buildings for a buddy up north. He told me that they go up cheap, as in pennies on the dollar for the most part in comparison to a block building, and you can have them to Florida building code just as easily. The second you have one of those buildings that has to be cooled, you are losing money on what you saved, and before the third years is out, you will have just lost any savings you made with the steel building. I’m not sure of his numbers, but he does know what he’s talking about. The point is that there is always a cheaper way to do things, but some times you have to consider the long term cost. We will have a fairly environmentally friendly business, and that will save us money over time even though our start up will be higher.
Let me know if you guys have any more questions, hope this helped and I enjoy chatting(sorry for misspellings, I’m tired and it’s late)!

-K from the Bay

Great post. As a business owner thinking of locating somewhere in the near future, does the Palm Bay requirement that new buildings be done in Florida vernacular turn you away from Palm Bay? I hate that requirement, as I think it adds a burden to the small business-person without the large pockets of a Lowes or Walmart. There are plenty of new buildings in Melbourne and other local cities that are attractive and look just fine. What do you think?

I haven’t been on this blog in about a month and it has developed quite a bit since then, everyone should just simmer down a bit, and everyone who wants the developer to move the center further south, get realistic. These guys didn’t spend millions of dollars in impact fees($6 million in traffic alone) to up and move at the drop of a hat. In all honesty, there is good and bad, and for the record I live in Palm Bay, I have for several years now. I am also one of the folks considering one of the out parcels of this shopping center for a new start up restaurant, and that is all I may divulge about my business at this time. The Anchors listed were correct, though I don’t see Linen and Things any more after this latest development, the rest are in line. The target is indeed a Super Target and there will be a Kohl’s(to my wife’s delight and the disdain of my wallet). This development is to be 3 different stages, stage 1, to be completed in March of 2009, will include the Kohls and most of the inline spaces, some of the other anchors. Stage 2 is the Super Target and that is lined up for July of 2009. Stage 3, which is more inline space, is set for March of 2010. There is a few of the outparcels signed up, including a few chain restaurants.
I am honestly split on this, b/c the sales taxes raised by this will go to West Melbourne, not Palm Bay where I reside. In all fairness though, West Melbourne has significantly smaller area to raise taxes, and quite frankly it could use the money. Palm Bay Road and Babcock street, that intersection, was before construction the busiest intersection in Palm Bay(many people avoid it right now b/c it is crazy unsafe most of the time). It may or may not continue to be the busiest, but those shopping centers do need to clean it up, they’ve become run down and the City of Palm Bay feels the same way. Competition, I promise, will do just that. I haven’t fuly committed to this shopping center just yet, b/c they are quite proud of their property(price tag) and am still considering other locations back towards that intersection. The truth of the matter is that I would prefer to be located in palm Bay, b/c that is where I live, and that is the community that I would prefer to support, both through taxes and through planned Charity Events. The problem is that the side of the road I want to be on, isn’t owned by Palm Bay. We will have to look at everything first, even more closely b/c of the state of the economy, both nationally and locally.
To those who live behind the shopping center, sorry about your luck, but was that Publix shopping center there before the neighborhood, I honestly don’t know, but if it was or if you moved into it after it was built, then you have no room to complain, you choose to live there.
The developers: These guys are not idiots, here is what they see… Palm Bay is the 6th largest City in the state, but only the 22nd most populous. This region, Melbourne-Palm Bay is the High Tech corridor of the country, and there is room for growth. Any time you can find a place that has 100k people, and has tremendous room for future growth and undeveloped land, you do everything you can to get involved there. On the Palm Bay side of the road is Houses, West Melbourne had Agricultural Property(which by the way is constantly being converted to commercial property in every developing town in the country, be serious on that one for god sakes). The best location to put shops and restaurants is in between where people work, and where they live. Not to mention most development of Palm bay will occur to the south, and the jobs will still be with Harris, Northrop Grumman, DRS and so on, so you know they have to go by this center one way or another, and if not this center then down Malabar Road to avoid it, so more business for them.
I grew up in Atlanta, I came down here 11 years ago. If you think this is bad traffic, you haven’t even begun to see such. That is another reason that there will be 6 lanes on Palm Bay Road and I-95. They may have waited a little too long to start, but when you can pass part of the bill to a new developer, then by all means allow them to pick up part of the tab and waste my taxes on something we probably don’t need(can you tell I’ve lost some faith in government, no matter what party). The point is this, I watched my county in Atlanta become the fastest growing in the nation for 7 out of 10 years b4 I moved. It will happen here too, it has a lot of similarities, only slightly farther from the major city of Orlando. Change is inevitable, you can roll with it, or just stand there pissed off. I promise you if every citizen in Palm Bay could walk out tomorrow to petition and protest that Shopping Center, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE, THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY ON THE LINE! It isn’t even Palm Bay’s problem(on paper). It will add to our traffic and other problems, but this is the way of the world, sorry it isn’t all peaches.
So let’s hear it for those Palm Bay citizens that this shopping center will help. I wish my Tax dollars could be swallowed back up by Palm Bay, but I must make the best decision for my businesses future. Many Palm Bayians(can we call ourselves that or something else stupid like it?) will get jobs, save on gas, and perhaps even start a business b/c of this center, so it isn’t all bad. Hope this shed a little light on the center itself, Ask more questions if I know I will tell you what I can.

-K IN THE BAY