Many Palm Bay and West Melbourne residents saw the Florida Today story several days ago reporting on the new mega-shopping center at the northwest corner of Palm Bay Road and I-95. CBL and Associates Properties, the property developer, and their 50/50 partner on the project, The Benchmark Group, estimates completion of the project’s Phase I by October 2009.
The mega-center, called Hammock Landing, is to be styled almost identically to The Avenue at Viera, except it will be larger by 100,000 square feet of retail space. The planned Phase II expansion will add an additional 250,000 square feet. Hammock Landing seems an appropriate name, since it could very well be large enough for small aircraft to land in its massive parking lots.
Phase II will encroach the backyards of many new West Melbourne residents in the Minton Cove subdivision, a 210-home community being built off Minton road by Mercedes Homes. How will future residents feel about having not only the existing Publix plaza to the south, but a major shopping center to its east?
In this period of high home foreclosures, and with Palm Bay Road’s long history of tumultuous turnover of business tenants, along with Palm Bay’s slightly lower per-capita income than other areas of Brevard, one wonders if the new mega-shopping center could become an eye sore that the City of West Melbourne will have to deal with someday. Of course, the shopping center is in the absolute southeast corner of the City such that Palm Bay residents would be affected most by any detriments. It’s possible that these two developers, both from out-of-state, despite being well-versed in general demographics, may not be getting the full story about the economic situation in south Brevard.
Restaurant Woes
The plans, available online at CBL & Associates website (Update: More plans here at The Benchmark’s site, too) call for twelve initial smaller outbuildings along Palm Bay Road, the kind that would normally house such restaurants as Pinera Bread and Crispers. But guess what?
The day after the story broke, Crispers announced the closing of two of their three restaurants. Think about this. Crispers is a moderately-priced restaurant. They kept their Viera restaurant open, but are closing their Merritt Island and Indian Harbour Beach ones. Crispers is the perfect kind of tenant for a project of this scope, but they couldn’t find enough business in two south Brevard areas that are far more likely candidates for an upscale shopping center than Palm Bay or West Melbourne.
Also, consider that Pinera Bread, only a mile away at the corner of Stack Blvd and Palm Bay Road, didn’t last a year upon their grand opening. Their old building has been vacant for over a year. So, who are the twelve Hammock Landing out-parcel tenants supposed to be? McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Starbucks? That’s about what most Palm Bay residents feel comfortable spending money on - not Crispers. And there’s already an Applebee’s, Chili’s, Carrabba’s, and Boston Market at the corner of Palm Bay Road and Babcock.
A New Depressed Area in Palm Bay?
Is it the developer’s plan to woo away businesses from the current eco-center of north Palm Bay (Palm Bay Road and Babcock) to the mega-center, possibly creating a depressed area at Palm Bay Road and Babcock? And even if it isn’t the developer’s plan, could businesses find themselves moving there just because of more favorable lease options, newer facilities, and closer proximity to higher-income households?
It took the City of Melbourne over twenty years to redevelop and revitalize the downtown Melbourne area after the Melbourne Square Mall was built. Think we’re making an unfair analogy? Melbourne Square Mall’s distance from the center of downtown Melbourne is 2.25 miles - exactly due east/west from each other and with a major connecting road between them.
The distance from Hammock Landing to Palm Bay Road and Babcock? Exactly 2.25 miles.
A New Movie Theater?
It’s likely that CBL & Associates will seek a theater tenant as this helps late-night traffic - just like The Avenue at Viera. Up there, The Rave Theater helps keep businesses like Books-A-Million, Ice Cold Creamery, and the Pizza Gallery & Grill busy, sometimes until after midnight. A movie theater would seemingly be an excellent tenant to attract.
However, just down the road, the now infamous Roxy Theater on Palm Bay Road has gone in and out of business for almost ten years. Most recently, when the 2004 storms damaged it, it stayed closed for over two years, finally reopening this year as a dinner-and-a-movie enterprise. Did Palm Bay residents finally bite? Apparently not. It closed just last week after being open only six months. The landlord is looking for yet another theater tenant.
Culver Drive Traffic
The Palm Bay City Council is continuing a nearly year-long series of studies and discussion on various ways to expand (or not expand, depending on your politics) the Culver Drive “cut through”, as many Palm Bay residents call it. Culver Drive helps residents from the more affluent Lockmar Estates development get to Palm Bay Road quicker, avoiding the traffic hoopla on Minton Road. Many of these residents are Harris employees trying to get to work (or come home). The City wants to widen Culver. Or maybe just add a center lane. Or possibly do nothing. Their real intent, it seems, is a mystery.
Culver Drive will empty into the main entrance to Hammock Landing. So, if Palm Bay residents think there are problems now, just wait. Getting on and off I-95, already a challenge at certain times of the day, will become a lesson in Orlando-esque traffic for many.
Interesting side note: The completion of a five-office professional center on Culver Drive, walking distance to Hammock Landing, has remained completely vacant since its official opening several months ago.
Palm Bay Road - Home of the Forever Pothole
Palm Bay Road, in desperate need of more than just a resurfacing, is scheduled to be widened to six lanes. Eventually. We think. The city, already bogged down in a massive road improvement project funded through 2009, didn’t seemingly placed much effort on keeping up Palm Bay road’s appearance due to the “imminent” widening. While the $50 million dollar project was finally awarded in August, it’s unclear if the widening would be done in time for the Hammock Landing opening.
Zoning and Comprehensive Plans
Those familiar with city planning and zoning are aware that changes are constantly being made. No one can plan for every eventuality. City councils are tasked with doing the best they can under the circumstances. But, one has to wonder about major, sweeping changes, done based, apparently, on the mere knock of an opportunity. The area currently being considered is zoned agricultural. The City has to change it to Commercial for this to work. While everyone might expect that area to eventually be zoned commercial, considering its location, it might be a surprise for some to see it go from pasture lands to a mega-shopping center (read: small village) nearly overnight.
Would Bayside Lakes be a Better Fit?
Palm Bay already has an “upscale” area, with an award winning golf course to boot. Much more like Viera in both its appearance and economic base, Bayside Lakes, the old “dough-nut hole”, has become the pride and joy for the city. Malabar Road, already teeming with new construction and development, not to mention an already widened road that can handle its traffic well, is a perfect exit to choose.
So, why did the developers not choose Bayside Lakes, or Malabar Road? We don’t know for sure, but maybe they received a better tax subsidy from West Melbourne. Or maybe they don’t know what we Brevard residents know about the Palm Bay road area. Or maybe they couldn’t find enough land that the City of Palm Bay would approve for development (doubtful). Or maybe they couldn’t find enough land with interstate exposure. Or maybe the Bayside Lakes residents didn’t want it nearby. Or any or all of these things. But in terms of where it makes the most “sense”, it would seem that south and west of Malabar would be more fitting.
Summary
The project isn’t set in stone. No project is until the last brick is set. But it seems there is more than the usual concern over the Hammock Landing development. We don’t intend to be anti-development. We do intend to be common-sense development. This doesn’t seem to be the time, and possibly the place, for a large-scale metropolitan project of this kind. The governing bodies should require 70 percent tenancy leases prior to approval.
33 comments.
on September 30th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Actually it was an Atlanta Bread Company at the corner of Stack Blvd and Plam Bay Road that didn’t last because it was a dump. Panera Bread up at the Avenues and at Post and Wickham Rd is of much better quality.
By quality I mean at least they kept the place clean, something Atlanta Bread seemed to have a problem with.
Alan
on October 2nd, 2007 at 9:04 am
Much of what’s written about the planned shopping center, Hammock Landing, on the NW corner of I-95 and Palm Bay Road seems like it was written by one of the following:
A shop owner in Viera
A business owner in Viera
A resident of Viera
A jilted developer
This is going to hurt the Avenue of Viera significantly, as a substantial part of their patrons come from Palm Bay and the other communities south of Palm Bay. Hammock Landing will fill a void in the Palm Bay area, and be a great success! I look forward to avoiding I-95 and the other clogged arteries when I go shopping.
on October 2nd, 2007 at 10:27 am
I was shocked to hear the Crispers on Merritt Island was closing as of yesterday (10/1/07). Ilene and I used to go there from time to time, and seldom were there many people dining, but the food was good, the menu was extensive and healthy and the prices were moderate. Crispers pulled out of the new CrossRoads Shopping Center on Hwy 405 in Titusville, just before opening. It was the one restaurant I was looking forward to having here in T Town.
on October 4th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
I think its a great idea but only if they seek a theater tenant. I think this will make a difference to keep the place busy. It will be nice if they put another Rave like Viera. I think it will suceed due to the location and the amount of people in the area. They will not have to go to Viera. It also brings lots of jobs to the area. I am looking forward to having it in 2009.
on November 12th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I think the development of Hammock Landing on Palm Bay Road is a great idea, and I look forward to shopping there. I live nearby, and I want a large scale modern shopping venue near my home to protect the resale value of the area. And with the price of gas these days, I am in favor of local shopping options, and do not care about Viera, as they do not care about us. In my opinion, those old dilapidated buildings at the corner of Palm Bay and Babcock need to be torn down or renovated anyway, not left as they are continuing to attract the less desirable residents of the community. We either build the area up, or watch it decay. My vote is to build.
on November 27th, 2007 at 9:06 am
The biggest problem is: Hammock Landing is Planned for the biggest clogged area in NE Palm Bay! Good luck when you make your way there. Mostly just be careful. We have lots of crazy, inpatient, drivers with no regard for the safety of others.
on November 27th, 2007 at 9:10 am
The Mayor of PB said that what W.Melbourne does has NOTHING to do w/Us, so you might ask PB City Hall what we are going to get out of it aside from good shopping & more traffic.
on April 17th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I believe that there are good and bad sides to the new development, but everything in life is that way. Yes, it will bring a great deal more traffic to an already congested road, and no Palm Bay will not receive the type of compensation that they likely should. However, it will add jobs, tax revenue that is desperately needed by the City of West Melbourne as well as options to this region for food, entertainment and shopping. It does appear that the author of this article seemed very biased and very well could be a tenant in Vierra’s Avenue. I think the primary concern has to be for the community, and right now the bigger picture for Brevard is the loss of jobs at the Cape.
on April 17th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Okay, everyone. Let’s settle down. I wrote the story under my real name. I’m the editor of this website as well. I’m about as transparent a person as you can find these days on the web. Just google my name and you’ll find plenty on me.
I own Brevard Web Hosting and work out of my home (south Brevard). I do not have a shop in Viera, nor do I know anyone who does. Come on, folks. Read my arguments against this ghastly complex. They have little to do with any business being lost from Viera, but more to do with business being lost from Palm Bay Road and Babcock (the City of Palm Bay) and going to West Melbourne, analogous to the black hole left in downtown Melbourne by the building of the Melbourne Square Mall 20 years ago.
Not only am I not a shop owner of Viera (suggested by at least two folks above), I’m not interested in that complex either. It’s a nice complex, and it seems to do well where it’s at without negatively affecting places like Merritt Island Mall, Cocoa Village, Downtown Melbourne, Melbourne Square Mall, etc. I imagine it’s existence is one reason that has spurred downtown Rockledge to try and revitalize it’s area, but that’s probably about it. The population grew rapidly in the Suntree/Viera area with little shopping nearby for those residents.
Contrast that to Palm Bay. There’s plenty of shopping nearby (within three miles) for most Palm Bay residents. Maybe a giant complex like this might have fit better down near Sebastian, Micco, or Barefoot Bay, but as you’ll see, this complex is going to hurt many Palm Bay businesses in the long run. I’m hardly anti-development, but this, so far, is merely development for the sake of development without a thorough understanding of the Palm Bay and West Melbourne markets.
on April 21st, 2008 at 7:19 am
“Phase II will encroach the backyards of many new West Melbourne residents in the Minton Cove subdivision, a 210-home community being built off Minton road by Mercedes Homes. How will future residents feel about having not only the existing Publix plaza to the south, but a major shopping center to its east?”
WHAT,WEST MELBOURNE, CULVERT? I HAVENT HEARD ONE TIME THE SUB-DIVISION “OAKVIEW ESTATES” MENTIONED, NOT ONCE! THE HAMMOCK LANDINGS WILL BE AT ATHENS DRIVE RESIDENTS FRONT DOORS, ALONG WITH THE ALREADY 3000 PLUS CARS THAT TRAVEL/FLY DOWN ATHENS EACH DAY. WE ARE WITHIN THE 500 FT OF THE HAMMOCK LANDING ENTRANCE
on April 22nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
I wish they would of put it down here where Waterstone is..near Micco and the new interchange(coming soon). It is too busy up in that direction…and not an attractive place to put it..but nobody asked us!
on June 1st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Many of my first objections to the article have been covered by other responses and/or answered in the author’s response. Except these two: what black hole in Downtown Melbourne? Sure there is turnover, as in any downtown, but it is not a “black hole”. There are many businesses there (some for decades) and Melbourne has numerous events that draw people to the area. Second, there is no access to the new mall from Culver. The new entrance does not line up with Culver and is too close to the exit from I-95 to have a light, so I can’t see how it will ever being connected.
As far as a reader suggestion to build the center further south. Nice idea, but the developer can’t wait for some interchange that may or may not be built. There is already one here. That will bring in business from travelers as well as locals.
To the residents of Oakview Estates, I understand your feelings. I never go that way from the Publix for the very reason you state. I try to respect that it is a neighborhood street and not a thoroughfare. I think the city should never have made it open to direct traffic from across the street. They should have kept it inaccessible from the shopping center parking lot.
on June 1st, 2008 at 5:23 pm
The blackhole I was referring to was prior to the mid 90’s Melbourne City Council getting their act together and finally putting some teeth into the downtown Melbourne redevelopment district for some real tax and impact-fee breaks to encourage new businesses to consider downtown Melbourne. Prior to that, it had almost turned into a ghost town. Yes, a few businesses survived (although oddly one of them, Turner’s, is now going out of business).
To be clear about the Culver Drive matter, what I should have stated is that Culver drive ends across the street (Palm Bay Road) where the main entrance to the shopping center will be. But you are right that the entrance is not on Culver itself (although the name of the road going through the mall may eventually be named Culver). See the map here: http://www.benchmarkgrp.com/hammocklanding.
on June 17th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Sir, you obviously don’t know much about the Palm Bay/West Melbourne area. Many mistakes as to where things are located, the heaviest populated area of Palm Bay is the Northern part (bordering Melbourne and West Melbourne), and if you go to the Wal-Mart on Palm Bay Rd. you will notice there are probably more shoppers than you are even imagining right now. Anywhere south of Malabar Rd. would be much more of a “development bust”. No one I know goes to the Boston Market or the Carrabba’s near the Palm Bay Rd. and Babcock intersection. Oh, and since you say you’re from Southern Brevard, why haven’t you noticed that the widening of Palm Bay Rd. and Babcock is well under way? Perhaps you should visit more often. It’s a great place to do whatever!
on June 21st, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Put it in “Sebastian, Micco, or Barefoot Bay”? You have got to be kidding. You are right, you are obviously not a shop owner in Viera, if you think those locations (Micco or Barefoot Bay) would be good for a complex like Hammock Landing you’d be OUT OF BUSINESS in no time!
Why don’t you start being honest with the people on this board, Lawrence. You are probably some has been hippie who hates development and wants the government to buy all vacant land to preserve it.
Let’s examine how you and your crazy ideas would affect the people:
1) “Crispers is closing 2 locations, so this development will fail…” The Palm Bay area has a severe lack of good restaurants. I live near city hall, and the only reasonable places to eat are in Bayside Lakes (though no major well known places) and the Texas Roadhouse on Malabar Road. If I want to take my wife somewhere special, we go to 192 in Melbourne. 100,000+ live in Palm Bay and we hardly have any standalone family casual (or dressy) restaurants nearby that are either part of a chain or unique to our area. If the food is good, prices are right and the service is reasonable, PEOPLE WILL COME. Even us schlubs in Palm Bay.
2) “Palm Bay Road and Babcock will suffer…” Well, GOOD! A little competition never hurt anyone. Lowes built a gorgeous building on Malabar Road recently. There were dire predictions on the former FL Today forums of Home Depot’s demise. Well guess what? Both palces are doing just fine, their parking lots are both bustling. Home Depot even buffed their floors and realized that a little customer service was in order to lure customers from Lowes. Competition is a GOOD THING. As someone else said, those commercial developments at Babcock/PBR need to be renovated. They are slummy, period. Currently, with no competition open yet, what incentive is their for the building owners to pretty up their investment and stay attractive to the public? Very little, they are the only game in town. But 2.25 miles from them, change is coming. They better class up or they deserve to go belly up.
3) “Roxy Theater went out, so obviously another theater will go belly up…” You have got to be kidding. A one or two screen, out of date, dollar theater is not in the same league as a Rave or Cinemaworld. Trust me, if the residents of Palm Bay have a good, modern movie theater to go to, we will go in droves. I frequent Cinemaworld and The Oaks, due to their modern technologies. Having an option closer to home will save me $$$$.
Lastly, you are a great example of a hypocrite liberal. You preach that we should not build any new commercial properties, yet what does that mean for the working people out here? A 15-20 minute drive @ $4/gallon to get to a decent movie theater. A 20-30 minute drive @ $4 to get to Viera for some decent shopping. How about the effects on the environment? Isn’t that a high concern of you libs? What about the “working man” who has to pay those gas prices? Isn’t that a concern of you libs? What about all the jobs that won’t be created if you have your way? Hypocrisy is in the air…
on June 21st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
@Palm Bay Native (Juan in Orlando): Uh, I live pretty close to the affected area. I have for 15 years, and have been in Brevard for 36. Sorry you don’t know any folks who go to Carabba’s or Boston Market. Give me a call next time YOU are in town and we can meet there and have some chow. And yes, I’ve noticed the widening which isn’t the point of the article.
@Andy: Settle down. I’m about as right-wing as they come, my friend. You’re starting to see liberals in the wallpaper designs, I think. If you read my author bio, I hint at that. But, of course, a 20-second Google search of my name (along with a little perfunctory reading) could have saved you the trouble of your accusations.
You make some excellent points, particularly about the limited fine dining in Palm Bay.
The Roxy, just so you know, was a regular theater for years before becoming a dollar theater for economic reasons. I spoke at length the former manager of the theater about this over the years. She now manages the Merritt Island theater if you want to call her.
I certainly don’t preach that we should not build new commercial properties. In fact, as a general rule, I’m very pro-development, anti-taxation, and believe we should get government out of the way of business. That doesn’t mean that businesses don’t make mistakes and can’t be critiqued on that basis.
Last I heard on this development, the leasing agents are starting to sweat bullets. They’ve lost several key planned tenants (Linens N’ Things, for one) and they are asking over $40/sq. ft and having a very tough time getting merchants to bite on that. I imagine they’ll back off that and offer some incentives as they get closer to completion so they can open at 80% leased capacity.
It’s also interesting to me that the small professional center across the street on Culver has yet to lease to any real businesses a year after completion. They just leased a double unit for a kid’s dance club in the evenings (which should do wonders for other professional businesses that might otherwise have considered it), but I think it shows the trouble they are having.
Your Lowe’s/Home Depot comment should be directed to Florida Today. I didn’t make that prediction (nor would have agreed with it). Malabar Road is growing nicely and Lowe’s fits right in with the market.
on June 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 am
Lawrence: If you are more to the right than the left, then fine. But your moment of progressive thoughts sure came out on your original post. After posting what I did, I did check out other parts of your site and found your bio, etc. I have debated with enough anti-development folks through the years and your original points seemed to mirror their comments.
Regarding Roxy — I only point to the success of other modern theaters across the region, they are doing fine and arguably have less people around them that Hammock Landing will. I have been to poor as dirt places in Appalachia and seen decent movie theaters bustling. Movies tickets don’t cost that much and particularly attract the young crowd - who have more disposable income in general.
Regarding potential business mistakes… In doing their due diligence, don’t you think the developers thought about economic conditions? They are investing in an area with decent fundamentals and also one that is primed for more growth. I know they have looked at the residential developments that are planned and/or being built already. I hardly call it a “mistake” to build a major shopping center at the intersection of 3 major roads (I-95, PBR and Minton) with 100,000+ people surrounding the center. This area can and will support such a center. It may not start off at 100% capacity, but opening at 80% is pretty good and leaves them room to grow.
Oh yeah, about the professional center on Culvert, this is a great example of how important location is. That location is not that great and they are suffering for it. Plenty of other new professional offices in the city have at least some good tenants, in part due to their superior locations.
Thank you for this blog, I appreciate having a good local blog like this to read. My apologies if I got excited in the earlier post, I tend to do that when the politics in me comes out. Just call me Hulk.
on July 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Although I was pleased to finally have shopping close to home, rather than having to either drive up to Viera or down to Vero, I too have been concerned about the viability of the location. After checking the CBL website, it appears that the “anchor” stores are Petco and Linens ‘n Things? I’m not a retail developer, and perhaps they know something I don’t, but I can’t see how a development of that size can survive without significant tenants. There are already so many depressed commercial areas in southern Brevard that I wonder who is willing to finance more?
on July 16th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
From what I see on their aerial shot:
Target, Kohls, Michaels, Marshalls, Ross, ToysRUs/BabiesRUs in addition to what you have there. Though Linens N Things has closed a bunch of stores, so they may be out now.
http://www.benchmarkgrp.com/hammocklanding
on July 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I am a resident of Bayside Lakes and cannot wait for the new Hammock Landing to open! We desperately need shopping and restaurants in Palm Bay. There is nothing here. This development is long overdue and will be frequented often by everyone I know. The “new” Palm Bay residents are sick and tired of having to drive 30 minutes to do anything and everything! It has truly been a shame that developers and city leaders have neglected the young, upscale, educated, affluent and cosmopolitan familes that reside in this large burb for so many years. We would love to have a movie theater, upscale restaurants and shops to frequent with our kids, friends, family, guests and spouses. It would be great to have a “date night” that didn’t take 40 minutes each way in the car to enjoy. I truly hope the developers are able to secure a movie theater. It’s definitely needed. Do I wish that this development was closer to Bayside Lakes? Yes, of course. But things are starting to grow back here with the addition of Snappers and Starbucks. It would be nice to have some children’s stores as well as a book store, clothing store and more restaurants. But for now we will take Hammock Landing. We can’t wait! It will succeed! Does anyone know if it’s going to be a regular Target or a Super Target?
on July 29th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Sir, just because I went to college in Orlando for two years, and is where I purchased this computer, doesn’t mean I don’t live in Palm Bay. I’ve lived here every year since I was four, except for the two that I lived in Orlando. You must not really care about what I said since the fact that I lived in Orlando once upon a time, widening of roads (which may not be what this is all about, but is part of the development nonetheless), and having a date a Carraba’s or Boston Market with you is all you want to talk about. I suppose a not-meaningful reply is better than no reply.
on July 30th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I can’t remember where (and I sincerely hope the info is wrong), but I read that both Target and ToysRUs/BabiesRUs have backed out. I pass the site every day on my way to and from work, and construction is moving steadily, but I can’t find any up-to-date information with respect to the tenants. I agree with JD that we need upscale restaurants, specialty stores and a decent movie theater. But in this economy, will they come, and if so, will they be able to hold out until things turn around?
on July 30th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
I think it will give some teenagers something to do, raise job opportunities and hopefully raise palm bays economy. The only bad thing I think, is putting more congestive traffic in the area. It is bad enough already. I can already see it happening. A traffic DISASTER.
on August 1st, 2008 at 12:41 am
Hello All,
I haven’t been on this blog in about a month and it has developed quite a bit since then, everyone should just simmer down a bit, and everyone who wants the developer to move the center further south, get realistic. These guys didn’t spend millions of dollars in impact fees($6 million in traffic alone) to up and move at the drop of a hat. In all honesty, there is good and bad, and for the record I live in Palm Bay, I have for several years now. I am also one of the folks considering one of the out parcels of this shopping center for a new start up restaurant, and that is all I may divulge about my business at this time. The Anchors listed were correct, though I don’t see Linen and Things any more after this latest development, the rest are in line. The target is indeed a Super Target and there will be a Kohl’s(to my wife’s delight and the disdain of my wallet). This development is to be 3 different stages, stage 1, to be completed in March of 2009, will include the Kohls and most of the inline spaces, some of the other anchors. Stage 2 is the Super Target and that is lined up for July of 2009. Stage 3, which is more inline space, is set for March of 2010. There is a few of the outparcels signed up, including a few chain restaurants.
I am honestly split on this, b/c the sales taxes raised by this will go to West Melbourne, not Palm Bay where I reside. In all fairness though, West Melbourne has significantly smaller area to raise taxes, and quite frankly it could use the money. Palm Bay Road and Babcock street, that intersection, was before construction the busiest intersection in Palm Bay(many people avoid it right now b/c it is crazy unsafe most of the time). It may or may not continue to be the busiest, but those shopping centers do need to clean it up, they’ve become run down and the City of Palm Bay feels the same way. Competition, I promise, will do just that. I haven’t fuly committed to this shopping center just yet, b/c they are quite proud of their property(price tag) and am still considering other locations back towards that intersection. The truth of the matter is that I would prefer to be located in palm Bay, b/c that is where I live, and that is the community that I would prefer to support, both through taxes and through planned Charity Events. The problem is that the side of the road I want to be on, isn’t owned by Palm Bay. We will have to look at everything first, even more closely b/c of the state of the economy, both nationally and locally.
To those who live behind the shopping center, sorry about your luck, but was that Publix shopping center there before the neighborhood, I honestly don’t know, but if it was or if you moved into it after it was built, then you have no room to complain, you choose to live there.
The developers: These guys are not idiots, here is what they see… Palm Bay is the 6th largest City in the state, but only the 22nd most populous. This region, Melbourne-Palm Bay is the High Tech corridor of the country, and there is room for growth. Any time you can find a place that has 100k people, and has tremendous room for future growth and undeveloped land, you do everything you can to get involved there. On the Palm Bay side of the road is Houses, West Melbourne had Agricultural Property(which by the way is constantly being converted to commercial property in every developing town in the country, be serious on that one for god sakes). The best location to put shops and restaurants is in between where people work, and where they live. Not to mention most development of Palm bay will occur to the south, and the jobs will still be with Harris, Northrop Grumman, DRS and so on, so you know they have to go by this center one way or another, and if not this center then down Malabar Road to avoid it, so more business for them.
I grew up in Atlanta, I came down here 11 years ago. If you think this is bad traffic, you haven’t even begun to see such. That is another reason that there will be 6 lanes on Palm Bay Road and I-95. They may have waited a little too long to start, but when you can pass part of the bill to a new developer, then by all means allow them to pick up part of the tab and waste my taxes on something we probably don’t need(can you tell I’ve lost some faith in government, no matter what party). The point is this, I watched my county in Atlanta become the fastest growing in the nation for 7 out of 10 years b4 I moved. It will happen here too, it has a lot of similarities, only slightly farther from the major city of Orlando. Change is inevitable, you can roll with it, or just stand there pissed off. I promise you if every citizen in Palm Bay could walk out tomorrow to petition and protest that Shopping Center, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE, THERE IS TOO MUCH MONEY ON THE LINE! It isn’t even Palm Bay’s problem(on paper). It will add to our traffic and other problems, but this is the way of the world, sorry it isn’t all peaches.
So let’s hear it for those Palm Bay citizens that this shopping center will help. I wish my Tax dollars could be swallowed back up by Palm Bay, but I must make the best decision for my businesses future. Many Palm Bayians(can we call ourselves that or something else stupid like it?) will get jobs, save on gas, and perhaps even start a business b/c of this center, so it isn’t all bad. Hope this shed a little light on the center itself, Ask more questions if I know I will tell you what I can.
-K IN THE BAY
on August 4th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
i think all this is an ok idea, many jobs for teenagers and others, plus whats better then competition between stores thats better on our wallets!
on August 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
K in The Bay:
Great post. As a business owner thinking of locating somewhere in the near future, does the Palm Bay requirement that new buildings be done in Florida vernacular turn you away from Palm Bay? I hate that requirement, as I think it adds a burden to the small business-person without the large pockets of a Lowes or Walmart. There are plenty of new buildings in Melbourne and other local cities that are attractive and look just fine. What do you think?
on August 6th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Andy,
I am mixed on it, as most of the things involved with this decision. I think it is good to have some sort of control over what goes up in your city, it avoids the calamity of the infamous eye sores that end up in other cities. It is quite a bit restrictive b/c if we do build from the ground up it will prevent us from going completely with our theme and concept. I would however, as I mentioned before, prefer to build in Palm Bay. In all honesty, the really is little price difference once you are the builder and you are putting it up from the ground up. Most of the builders in this area are used to it so the expense is negated by they’re particular expertise, versus where I grew up in Atlanta everything was Red Brick, b/c it was readily available and therefore cheap, and thus everyone in the area, for the most part, knew how to work with it whether or not it was required for that area.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Palm Bay has plenty of screwed up ideas and regulations and all kind of problems, but it is the City I have chosen to put my roots down in and rather than complain about it, I am dealing with it. I believe that there are two different ways to cope with something, deal with it, or get off your ass and change it. I do not have the political clout to change the way things are done, so therefore I am not ready to make that move. Besides, if you are about to try to get something done, you don’t go pissing off the people who are supposed to be helping you.
Personally, I think the biggest problem in this area is all of the Cities attitude towards new business(And this is not confined to Palm Bay). I think the Cities in this area rip off new business owners with all of their Impact Fees. Did you know that the Long Doggers on Minton Road paid somewhere between $50-75k in impact fees? That is ridiculous, no matter if you have the money or not. In the outparcel in the Hammock Landing we are looking at b/t $75-125k when it is all said in done, some of which is pay back to the shopping center for their up front costs, the rest is in addition to what has been done. I believe it is the purpose of the City to encourage small business, not exploit it. These are the issues that I have had to come to grips with, and mind you this is only for a new business. If we were to purchase an existing business, we would not pay a single impact fee cent. There are all kinds of different types of fees, they range from environmental to traffic flow impact to drainage, you name it, we pay it. I understand the basic principals, and i agree to an extent that if you put something big in a new location there will be consequences, but some of this stuff is out of control.
I seem to have gotten a bit off topic, so back to the original question before calling it a night. There are all types of cheap substitutes out there for buildings if you didn’t have this particular requirement to worry about. I have a friend who is an electrician, who once helped build steel shell buildings for a buddy up north. He told me that they go up cheap, as in pennies on the dollar for the most part in comparison to a block building, and you can have them to Florida building code just as easily. The second you have one of those buildings that has to be cooled, you are losing money on what you saved, and before the third years is out, you will have just lost any savings you made with the steel building. I’m not sure of his numbers, but he does know what he’s talking about. The point is that there is always a cheaper way to do things, but some times you have to consider the long term cost. We will have a fairly environmentally friendly business, and that will save us money over time even though our start up will be higher.
Let me know if you guys have any more questions, hope this helped and I enjoy chatting(sorry for misspellings, I’m tired and it’s late)!
-K from the Bay
on August 11th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Does anyone know if Target plans on closing their regular existing store on US 192, after they open up the SuperCenter in Hammock Landing? Thanks
on August 14th, 2008 at 12:18 am
I have a question and a comment that admittedly have nothing to do with the original article/discussion.
First, K in the Bay, what county near Atlanta are you from? I too am from the Atlanta area (born and raised). I have yet to hear of or meet anyone else from Atlanta here in the Melbourne area until now. Just curious…Fayette County? Gwinnett?
Secondly, I can’t find it now b/c it’s too late and I should be in bed but someone above said the theater was a good idea b/c it draws young people who have more disposable income. WHAT?!?!? I don’t know how old the person is that said that but you must be really far removed from reality. I don’t mean to be rude but I don’t know anyone under the age of 40 that is not either in debt up to their eyeballs or just does without (I fall in the latter category). On the other hand, I know lots of older folks with social security, pensions, etc. on a “fixed” income who have plenty of money, no debt, travel the world, etc.
Finally, the road is “Culver” not “Culvert”!
on August 15th, 2008 at 12:42 am
Dont mind the traffic it will bring to the area. As a Lockmar Estates home owner I am excited we will have shopping and restaurants for our young kids to socialize and enjoy. Heck the whole family. This will be a tremendous success for both Palm Bay and West Melbourne. I welcome the Growth… It will be our shopping destination for sure. Goodbye Viera
on August 16th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
‘Lanta Gal…
I am from Gwinnett County, I grew up my whole life in Snellville but moved here to go to Florida Tech 11 years ago and have stayed b/c I love the area. How about yourself?
The under 40 crowd might be in debt up to their ears, but they don’t necessarily see it that way. If you take a look at the Service industry for example, they might make $100 dollars on their shift, be done at 11pm, and then they’re out looking for a bar to go party and they blowin’ $20-40 every night. They have far less in responsibilities (this is as a whole, not everyone) such as not necessarily a car payment, and therefore insurance and gas, they rent more commonly and often with several roommates, so they may only need to make $500 or so a month to be just fine. It may not be comfortable living or planning for the future, but it happens all the time. I only bring this up b/c I was the bartender for this crowd for 8 years, and it blew my mind to watch. Ignorance is bliss.
Even non-hospitality folks in their twenties usually have more cash on hand b/c they haven’t singed on for a mortgage yet and/or they just don’t care about racking up some more dept with the credit cards b/c they want the life now that their parents have worked 30 years for, I have seen that quite a bit. It isn’t that big a deal, and it wasn’t pointed towards saying that this crowd has more accumulated wealth, but they do spend cash in a very care-free manner, as a whole, not everyone.
In other news, not going to sign on with the shopping center, some of the terms were too strict for us, but that doesn’t mean I wish them badly or that I don’t think it will work out to benefit a lot of people. I wish them well, they were a nice group, but in the end we wanted to have more say in how are business was run then would be allowed at a major shopping center such as this. Still looking, and when I come up with something I will let you guys know where it’s going to be at and we can sit down and discuss the perverbial sh*t. That’s all I have for now, but I’m always up for more discussion or questions, I’m sure there are plenty of misspellings but you’ll have to forgive me, I gotta run.
-K in the Bay
on August 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
‘Lanta Gal,
Have you ever been to a night movie? All one has to do is look at the check out the clientele at the movie theater near PB city hall or the Oaks in Melbourne to see the masses of teenie boppers. Mix a movie theater in with other shopping options like Hammock Landing will offer and it is a winning combination.
For the record, I am 26 years old and have zero debt other than my mortgage (since you asked).
on August 17th, 2008 at 3:27 am
The movie theater isn’t going to happen, it is a restriction by Kohls.
-K in the Bay
What do you think?
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